In Part 2 of a special, 2-part episode, hosts Peter Reynolds & Damon Adachi continue demystifying Search Engine Optimization (SEO) with travel blogger and SEO specialist Nina Clapperton www.SheKnowsSEO.co
How can businesses use keywords to optimize their website effectively? Guest Nina Clapperton highlights the importance of having a blog associated with your profession to generate more keywords that Google can recognize and to showcase your qualifications and expertise.
Nina then walks listeners step-by-step through her process of monetizing her blog with affiliate marketing, identifying keywords and the power of Question-Based Keywords, which targets the questions asked of Google by consumers - a particularly effective strategy in the growing world of home devices that rely on voice search (Google Home, Amazon Echo, etc).
If you missed Part 1, you can find it here!
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PETER REYNOLDS: And so for the people out there who are starting their business, when it comes to SEO, you can do that to your website using the right keywords and using essentially Google English to make sure Google is recognized. But of course that's limited in the amount of text one has on your website depending on how many pages you have. Is the idea that having a blog associated with your profession just gives you that weekly, monthly opportunity to create more keywords that Google can recognize to drive eyeballs ultimately to your blog and then to your website?
NINA CLAPPERTON: Correct. Yeah. So most people, their homepage, first of all, has like two sentences. And I would up that immediately. Homepages should have a fair amount of text on them that contextualizes your site and contextualizes your authority. Like, who are you to talk about this? My sister is an architect and I did her website. And initially, the guys that like did her web design put up like one sentence like, I'm a designer. Hi." And I was like, no, when are you going to go to someone's website that's an architect? And they don't mention any accolades and they don't mention their training and they don't mention the type of architecture they do. As I've recently learned, there are so many. But you really want to make sure that your homepage is kind of like your first introduction to people. So it should have a fair amount of content. There are also other places you can like rank across your site. So individual pages can rank. I used to work for a law firm in the States doing their copywriting and SEO. And the way we structured it is they had a homepage with a ton of information, and then they had like a dropdown menu bar of each location in the state where they operated. And then on each of those pages, it was like a whole new homepage just about that state. So let's say it was like, I don't know, like Palm Springs lawyer for whatever type of law. That page became almost a homepage for the site again, but just about that one specialty. And then at that point, most places don't have a ton of locations. So you do start to run out of places that you can add more content. And one of the ways we show Google who we are and that we can be trusted on a topic is by writing on that topic to death. And that's where a blog comes in. That's where you can answer those questions that sometimes feel a bit dumb. Honestly, I've answered one on my blog called, Is Canada in America? I have other ones about like, Oh, can you drink the water in Toronto? Where I'm like, of course you can. What are you talking about? Can you drive in Canada with a US ID? And I'm like, yeah, some people don't know that. And so people will search questions that we feel are not beneath us, but beneath the level we think we're at. I'm all about answering every question and answering even those questions that might be born of just ignorance. I just learned Mexico is in North America two years ago, because I'd never really considered it. I was just like, it's Mexico. I don't really care where it is. It's nice. If I was searching that, though, I would want to get an answer. And if I'm getting that answer, I'm probably now on like a fact-finding mission about that topic and I'm ready to learn more. So blogs are really an opportunity to almost, it's almost the same level as being like a person on the street hearing someone ask a weird question. You're like, oh, hey, by the way, here's the answer. And they're like, Oh, cool. How do you know that? And then you present the rest of your site, like, look at how I know that I know so much. And actually, if you need help with it, you can hire me. And then you'll know so much too. And that's really like the journey you want to send people on through the blog. So it's not just about monetizing on the page. In fact, my SEO site isn't monetized with advertisements or anything. It makes the majority of its money through course sales and client services because that's the nature of that business. And again, I do the same thing from my blog. I just send them on a journey through my knowledge and then bring them to the point where they now understand enough and they want to put the pieces together and I offer them the way that they can do that.
PETER REYNOLDS: It's really interesting when you talk about answering questions in your blog because For myself, I think that was always the challenge. I started a blog and then, what the heck am I going to write about? I felt like there was only so many topics I could come up with when it came to video production. You talk about budgeting, and you talk about location, and you talk about you know, marketing your video. And then I was sort of running out. But this idea of actually looking for the questions that people are asking about video production and then writing the answers in your blog is something that never occurred to me. Question, how do you find those questions?
NINA CLAPPERTON: For sure, there's a number of ways. I'll start with the free ways. Cause like, let's be real, start a business owner. You've got enough overhead already. One of the best spots is searchresponse.io. It's a website. You sign up for a free account and then you get 10 searches per month. And those 10 searches will yield 50 results each. So like you're walking away from this with 500. You do not need to pay for a plan that gives you more than that. You will not, you'll be too busy. So what you do is you go in there and then you search the topic that you're thinking of. So for example, video production, golden retriever, dog crate, whatever your focus is, you just put it into the search bar and it will search and run through the people also ask section of Google. So on the first page of Google, you guys may have seen where it has like four questions listed. And then if you click on them, it drops down an answer. What this does is it's combing through every possible people also ask question that could be on Google around that topic. And then you just have to pick the ones that you want. So you get to go through and see every variation of question. And some of them will be quite similar. So just like combine those mentioned both of them in the same post, but others will branch off a lot. So you might get something like, okay, how do I use this camera? But then another one might be about like video stabilization on a rocky cliff. I don't know. I don't really do anything with cameras, so I'm not sure. But you will get a lot of variations that you wouldn't have thought of, like that you just, you know the topic so well that a lot of those base questions don't come up to you. Or you think, oh, well, I answered that somewhere else. But if you answered it somewhere else and you aren't ranking for this, you didn't answer it well enough, it deserves its own post. And that is something to be careful of, is like not being afraid to write on the same topic a couple times from a different perspective. Then after that, The next one is you can go to Google AdWords. So it will try and make you sign up for a Google ads account, but it will not make you pay for anything. So just sign up, go through the process and you'll get to a page called Google AdWords. And this is where Google is giving us the keywords. It's it knows about, it gives us a really rough traffic estimate, but again, you search video stabilization. If we're going to go down that route a bit more and it will bring up all the related keywords related to that. So. That's a bit harder to find the questions, but you can filter through it and like take some time. Now the easy way and my favorite way is a company called Keysearch. It is about 120 bucks a year. It's pretty cheap, but equally you could do this for a month. I don't remember how much their monthly plan is. Buy it for a month, get a ton of keywords, close it, leave. On there, you can filter so many different things by keywords. So you can search a keyword and then filter by volume. filter by number of keywords, um, filter by how difficult they are because you don't want to go after one that like, I don't know, I can't think of any famous video brands or companies, but like, let's say for dogs, like if PetSmart and bring Fido and I don't know, pet MD or whatever all ranking in the top 10, my little like baby site is not going to get in there and compete with them yet. So what I can do is find ones that are easier, which are typically ones those big guys haven't gone after. and I can write on those. So that's where I get things like, I wrote one recently, do dogs have arms? Because that was a really big question people had. And I was like, you know what, okay, sure, I'll write on it, because no one else did. And then it ranked immediately on this brand new site, ranking in page one, in position number one. A question of whether that whole debate of like, do they have arms or legs? Well, now I've answered it. So finding places like that are really helpful. Another thing you can do in Keysearch is to mine forums. And that sounds really like fancy. Like it's not like anything like crypto mining. This is really quick. It's like two clicks. In Keysearch, there's a top tab called competitive analysis. You'll click on that and then you'll go into their organic keywords. This is where you can put any website on the internet and then find the keywords that they are already ranking for. So you get to kind of go in and like steal keywords. And keywords are not copywritten. There is no like, it's not really stealing. Um, but when you go in there, if you mine a forum, so Quora, Reddit, you put them in and then find any keywords on your topic that they are ranking for. They are not an authority source, but they typically come up for questions because no one else has answered the question except for Joe 786 from Maine. And you're like. Who is that? How can I trust him to know if my heart medicine is actually safe? That's why we don't trust those people. We trust our sites, and so does Google. So those are a couple of different ways to find those questions that will really help your site. And then just keeping a list of them. Keep track, and then work your way through. Write a blog post for each one.
DAMON ADACHI: So much great information packed into this keyword. It's fantastic.
PETER REYNOLDS: Quick, it's interesting. So we've talked about how to find the keywords, which can, you know, writing the blogs, which are going to get the eyeballs. And again, it's all about becoming that recognized expert. And we've talked about that before. The more you write about it, the more Google thinks you're a recognized expert and it's going to push you up the rankings. And the people that read your blog are going to see that you've talked on this topic 100 times. That's going to raise your profile as well. So for those people that want to actually earn money from their blog, so taking that step, can you talk a little bit about that? The monetization.
NINA CLAPPERTON: For sure. Yeah, there's a few ways to monetize and I'll be honest, I don't do every single one because some to me are too active and I'm all about passive revenue. I'm like moving to Europe with my dog in a week and like driving across Europe for five months. So I don't want to be chained to my computer for 10 hours a day. So the main method that I use is affiliate marketing and anyone can do this, even a company. So like even law firms or even like technically hospitals could do this. You don't have to, be like worried about it impacting your user experience. All it is is recommending products or services that you enjoyed and that you recommend to other people. So you've probably done this in your daily life. I know like I do it all the time. I'm obsessed with my dog. I know I've mentioned him a lot during this with all of the Golden Retriever references. But when we go to the dog park, I will be like, oh my God, I got him this new toy. It's so good. He's finally calmed down because he was a demon when I first got him. Like puppies are horrible. Um, but I would say like, yeah, this, like this one changed my life or this leash is so good. He can't bite through it. And then people would go and buy those things based on my recommendation. And I made no money off of that. But you can make money off of that when you do it on your website. So basically it's just you reviewing products or services in a way that says, is this worth it? Yes, this is worth it. And because people trust you and you're an authority, they will buy from you. And it's a similar thing to them buying from you for a digital product, a physical product, or a service. As long as you have consumer trust, they are interested in you. And I think that's something a lot of companies forget with online things is they do sales via like funny TikTok memes or something, which first of all, you have to keep posting. And like, I cannot remember every trending sound or whatever, but they think about being funny. They don't think of, or maybe even being liked, but they don't think about being trusted. And that's where we come in. And so we put a face to the brand to some extent and say, here's something we really enjoyed. I recommend it. You would like it too. If you like my other stuff, if you like my other content, if you trust me, then you can trust me on this. So that's one way. The other way is ad revenue. So there are tons of advertisers out there. I started with Google AdSense. Highly recommend no one do anything with Google AdSense. You will make a lot of money. It'll mess up your site structure and speed. Instead, wait a little bit. There are so many networks out there. But for networks, you have to usually have a certain level of traffic already. And the thing that happens with like online businesses all the time is like the first year or so is such a drag of I'm working for free. I'm spending so many hours. It's not working. It's horrible. But then suddenly you unlock like a level of revenue and then revenue just starts pouring at you and you're like, okay, whoa. Great, glad I'm here. And then you have to slog a little bit more at that same level. And then you unlock another level. And it really feels like a video game where you just kind of keep leveling up. And then the bonuses just like hit you in the face each time, which is really nice. So with ad revenue, I'm currently with a company called Mediavine. And my site has about 100,000 page views a month. And I make anywhere from $1,500 to $2,500 a month off of it, depending on the seasonality of the ads. Affiliates, I make way more. I've been averaging anywhere from 18 to 24,000 a month. So obviously I care a bit more about them instead. And then lastly, there are digital products and services. So this is where you would create something. So a mini course online, just like a video course of you, your face, you go for it. A private podcast stream, a paid email newsletter, a Patreon. There's so many options. All of these are a type of digital product. I have a number of them across all of my sites now. And with that, you are then selling something that you do own. So you are making more money, but you then have to do more work to promote it because unlike those affiliates, where people already know about like Kong choose for dogs. they don't have any base recognition for yours yet. So you have to like grow that too. But all three of those can work in tandem and really do, to be honest, because in order for someone to, let's say, let's say you had a video course. In order for someone to take that course, they need certain cameras. And so you can recommend those cameras. And because cameras are a million dollars, you're going to get a percentage of that. And that could be thousands of dollars being sent to you immediately. from someone buying maybe a $100 course and buying the camera that you recommended. And then because they bought that one course that was maybe about stabilizing the video, then they buy another one about shooting at night. Then they buy another one about, I don't know, running after there's like that TikTok trend of someone running in a field. I'm like, how does anyone chase them with a camera? So that, like, these are things you can then build off of. And a lot of those questions that we found are questions that we can answer with affiliates and with products. So someone asking, like, how do I keep my dog safe in the car on a six hour road trip? The answer is a dog crate that goes in the trunk of your car. Here's the best dog crate that goes in the trunk of your car. I've just taken them on a quick journey that made me money, made sure that their question was answered and they bought something that they did actually need.
PETER REYNOLDS: Do all your blog posts have an affiliate marketing angle?
NINA CLAPPERTON: No. So I have many that are informational. I do a lot of ones where it's like, okay, what's it like living in this country? And with that, I'll throw in affiliate links for sure. Like, okay, it's hard to get a job. Here's this company that does remote work anywhere. So you can have money while you try to get a job here. Or yeah, opening a bank account everywhere sucks. Use wise.com. There's an affiliate link. But the entire post is informational instead. I do have other posts that are dedicated to affiliates. Like, OK, are you looking for, like, the top, I don't know, New Zealand helicopter tours? Here they are. Here's some information about them. Here's the one you should pick. And each of those tours is an affiliate. Now, with Google, we do not want every single thing we do to be 100% like a buyer intent keyword, which basically means that someone searching best helicopter tours, best, I don't know, hotels that are dog friendly, and have like a bathtub or something where someone is searching for that so they can buy it immediately. But just selling at people all the time doesn't build trust. There's a reason that like QVC, we look at them and we're like, OK, cool. I don't trust anything you say because all you do is pitch things at me. So you have to, again, build trust first. And what I tell people with like the blog side of it is to get to a thousand page views just with informational content. And that can be anywhere from like three to 10 blog posts. It does take a while to grow at the beginning. And then once you get to that point, you're then going to start adding in those transactional kind of posts about, okay, what is the best way to shoot at night with your video camera? Oh, hey, want to learn even more about this? Buy my course.
DAMON ADACHI: Yup. How does one find affiliates?
NINA CLAPPETON: Uh, the way that I started with it is I Googled affiliate for like whatever the thing was. So, um, there's a number of big ones out there to be honest, like the amazon.com affiliate is a really big program. Walmart's program right now is like punching up and trying to beat Amazon, which is really funny. So those are two big ones for most products, but whatever your niche is, is going to have very specific ones. So, um, there are a number of like networks online that kind of round up all of the affiliates. So for example, there's one called CJ.com. These are all free to join. And then once you join, they give you like, okay, here are 100 affiliates that you could join through our platform. And it just depends on like what your niche is as to which platform will work best for you. So going off like the camera example, I believe so REI has one and they sell GoPros very significantly. Then we would have, I'm pretty sure Henry's is on one of them. I don't remember which one it's on. But again, they sell like all the video stuff. Amazon would also have a lot of like the stands people use and like cases people use. And then from there, I feel like, hey, they didn't really have what I want. I would go to the website that you typically go to. So go to, I don't know, Nikon, whatever. Scroll to their bottom and in their footer, they will usually have something that says affiliate program. Click on that and it will take you to wherever their affiliate program is for you to join. But if you also just Google best camera affiliate programs, there's tons of roundups of them. So that's how I got started finding like the best travel ones, um, the best ones for blogging or for SEO. I do caution you though, don't join every single one, like pick a couple and focus on those ones. So what I did much like with kind of, I don't know, throwing spaghetti at the wall with different niche topics when I first started, before I like narrowed down to one thing, um, I did the same with affiliates. I joined, I think 70 programs and then just threw links into stuff, but I had no idea what I was doing. And then once I knew what I was doing, I was like, okay, well now I have to write a post for every single one of these affiliates and that's 70 posts right there. And I know that like one of them, the affiliate commission is going to be like a dollar per month or something. So like, why am I writing a whole post on that? Answer, don't write that post. Write another one that will make you money. And yeah, really focusing on maybe three to five affiliates in your first year. That way, I mean, we don't want to write about just one because realistically, like for travel specifically, if you're talking about hotels, people still want a tour. They want something to do nearby. They still need to, maybe they still need to rent a car. They probably still need travel insurance. So even if all my posts are about hotels, I have like the tangential extra affiliates that'll just like help with other things that they're doing, but I'm not going to dedicate posts to them immediately. I'm going to take my time. And with a lot of this, it really is like, wait, and then you get to the next step. And it sucks because I'm that kind of person that I'm like, let's do everything today. Let's like do absolutely all of it. And you can't do that. You need to like, take a minute. Really, like, write on everything to death before you move on to the next thing.
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PETER REYNOLDS: Damon, your, your mind seems blown, I think.
DAMON ADACHI: Well, I think there's a lot of Google English being spoken and I'm only getting certain pieces of it. No, it's, it's all, it's all absolutely fantastic. And it echoes a lot of the things that we talk about throughout in terms of, you know, from way back in niching to buyer persona to, you know, segmenting things that you can manage and understanding how much you can take on. So it's all super practical information. It's just for an expert in it. And that's not me necessarily.
PETER REYNOLDS: Well, I think, as Nina, you've talked about, the resources are out there and I know you have your own resources. Can you tell us a little bit about SheKnowsSCO and the resources you have available?
NINA CLAPPERTON: For sure. So sheknowsseo.co is my website where you can find tons of information on blogging, travel blogging, SEO. In there, I have a lot of posts about like a lot of these topics. Another passion of mine is AI and AI writing. So I have a lot on that. And when you go to the website, you will also get the opportunity to join my free SEO course, which is like a little kind of dipping your toe in, I guess, into the SEO world about how to set up a blog, how to do keyword research the right way, and yeah, how to monetize your blog as well. And then I also have a free email newsletter that comes out every Tuesday where I do deep dives into different topics. So last month I did a case study review of different ways to grow your email list that are really popular for business owners. So for example, going on a podcast, doing a summit, submitting to a bundle, things like that and then versus just your homepage of your website. Other ones I've done have included like tips on how to increase your traffic to your site no matter what your niche or mistakes you might be making and how to fix them with your site speed. So it's a very info-packed email that comes out every week and is totally free. So, feel free to join me over there and you will get to see my obsession with SEO because I actually started the site because my therapist said I had to stop talking to her about SEO. It's like my SEO journal, that whole site.
PETER REYNOLDS: So, where does somebody begin? What's the first step somebody should take in this SEO journey?
NINA CLAPPERTON: The very first thing is starting to research what you're interested in. I do not believe in starting a website that you have no interest or experience in. A lot of people two years ago would have told you to do that, but Google really likes it when you prove yourself and prove that you know what you're talking about. So I would sit down and make a list of What interests you? What is vaguely interesting to you? And then go on to one of those keyword research tools I talked about earlier and see what exists around that topic. Are there things that you can add to it? Are there ways that you are different than the other creators? Or are all the other creators like massive sites that have existed for a million years? Like if it's all like BuzzFeed half posts, things like that. you're not going to compete with them. So then start trying to find different angles into that topic. And then, yeah, really carve out your area. Once you know then what you want to talk about, then you just got to buy the domain, buy the hosting, set up the website. And if you already have an existing website, don't attach a different topic to that website. So don't go from your camera site and then start a blog about, I don't know, cats. That needs to be a separate website. It's gonna confuse Google. So make sure that if you are trying to build an existing website, you look for topics that are related to it. Because even if your whole site might be about architecture overall, you wanna start with little topic clusters. So for example, start with sustainable architecture. Start with, one of my friends just started a construction company. And he started with ground level decks, which are a certain type of deck. And so we are writing to death on that before we move on. And he was like, Oh, it'll be three posts. Yeah, we're at 23. And it's been two weeks of like me just do like just him writing. My research has 700 posts he's gonna have to do. So it's Yeah, there's a lot more out there than you think. Don't stop at the surface level. Keep going. And then honestly, as well, scream into a pillow sometimes because it's going to get frustrating. That's like my best business advice to anyone. It's like once in a while, scream into a pillow, go to the top of a mountain and scream into the abyss. And it helps you calm down a bit.
DAMON ADACHI: Blog topic. What is the best type of pillow to scream into?
NINA CLAPPERTON: 100%. And what pillow do you recommend for your affiliate? You're thinking like bloggers. Got it now. This is so great. I remember I first heard you speak at pod camp in Toronto. And I remember travel is a big part of my family, but I think a lot of them were born maybe a decade too early or several decades too early to do the kind of stuff that you do. I think my father, for example, in the 60s, he had a radio program called Traveler's Check, where he traveled to 52 countries. And it was all about, how do you travel through South America on $3 a day? And it was incredibly niche. And the reason that he picked that was the fact that he only had $3 a day in his travels. He had very little money. But that idea of that niche, he was not going, I don't even know if he thought it through that way. But this idea, he was not going to compete with the big BBC productions of going to Africa, going to these places. It was just him and his, audio recorder, traveling as well as he could. My wife, who's a huge traveler and has traveled to all seven continents, But she did it just before the internet came out. And we were talking about this podcast, and she could absolutely imagine herself back in her 20s, when she was just backpacking through China or India, that this would have been something she would have done. Because she has a lot to talk about. But at the time, they're just journal entries or postcards.
DAMON ADACHI: So that brings up a question for me. Everything you've explained so far is about the vehicle for the content. Right? You know, cause none of this works if you're not providing insightful, entertaining content. So for somebody who's, let's say they're great at doing movie reviews, like they really have an excellent perspective and they have knowledge and they can talk about anything and they become respected for their opinion. How do they latch onto your process without having to become an expert themselves? Are there, are there ways that people that are too intimidated by SEO able to leverage their great content and their great insights?
NINA CLAPPERTON: Oh, for sure. Like this is the thing. Most people do not need my level of SEO to succeed. I got to a great level and then I just kept going because I really love this stuff. So most people can hit kind of, they know their keywords, they know where to put keywords. Their site is fast enough. They have some triggers of authority to Google. For example, just saying, I'm a doctor and talking about doctor stuff. It's actually not that hard. That's the thing. I think people get scared off because we have so many acronyms, we have so many like special terms that you don't technically need to worry about. You're probably doing a lot of them already, like using headers on your site, that like bold section where you have like your little chapter markers almost throughout the post. That's a header. You've done it. Well done. Things like that. So a lot of it is just tweaking things. And once you learn it as well, like I'd say take It takes a week to just do a really, really in-depth course on it, but I would say take a month of learning, trialing, experimenting, figure out the way to blend it with your voice, and then from there, you're done. Now that will just keep paying dividends to you, because you have the knowledge, so it will just keep growing.
DAMON ADACHI: That's inspiring.
PETER REYNOLDS: Anything else you'd like to leave us with, Nina, that we haven't covered? I think we've covered pretty much everything.
NINA CLAPPERTON: Yeah, I think you guys have really squeezed the sponge out of my brain. I think the biggest thing is that anyone can do this, as long as you know that you care about what you're talking about. Now, you don't even have to be a good writer with things like ChatGPT and Jasper AI. There are ways to have someone assist you in the writing. And then a lot of it is just being willing to invest the time, energy, and expertise in this. If you absolutely hate the idea of it, there are so many SEO specialists out there who will help you. I do this for a living. I do blog coaching. I also do keyword research and blog post analysis for people. I even do full blog audits. So if you don't know what to do, message me and I'm happy to look at it. But don't be afraid to take the time for it. And remember as well that SEO takes time to work. It typically takes six to 12 months to see like the true gains of an SEO strategy because Google is slow. Google is like pouring through billions of pages every day. And so your little beginner blog is not its priority yet. You can make it Google's priority though down the line. Like I now, I'll write a post within an hour, it's ranking number one. That doesn't happen with every single one, I will preface that. But it happens regularly enough that like I can say it confidently. But for most people, it will take longer.
PETER REYNOLDS: Where can people find you?
DAMON ADACHI: Wait, where can travel bloggers with two golden retrievers find you because we have to be micro-niche.
NINA CLAPPERTON: Sorry, sorry, we've got to niche it out. Um, the best places to find me are, um, on my site. She knows SEO. Um, I have a free Facebook group called SEO for travel bloggers where I spend a lot of time. And then honestly, the best place is my Instagram at Nina Clapperton. Um, I am on there sharing photos of my golden retriever as well, all the time. Um, and giving a lot of SEO and travel advice over there. Um, yeah, if you want to check out my travel site, it's Nina out and about the A as well, where I have like. all my travels and the 18, I think it's about to be 19 countries I've lived in. So you're gonna get a lot of information there and kind of see, yeah, the way that I structure things.
PETER REYNOLDS: Well, Nina, thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us today. I think we went longer than we anticipated, but I think it was totally worth it.
DAMON ADACHI: Deep dive, excellent stuff.
NINA CLAPPERTON: Yeah, thank you for having me, guys.
PETER REYNOLDS: Nina Clapperton is a travel blogger and SEO specialist and the founder of SheKnowsSEO. Once again, thank you very much for joining us. Daymond, as always, thank you for lending your opinion and ear and marketing expertise to the podcast. And of course, thank you to our audience, who without you, we would not be here. And we do appreciate your support. Of course, you can hear this podcast anywhere you get your podcasts or watch it on YouTube. And we welcome your comments. Your comments are what drives the subject matter that we cover on this podcast. And of course, be sure to like and share and subscribe so you never miss an episode. And for Pros and Conversations, I'm your host, Peter Reynolds, and we'll see you next time.