Pros & Conversations
Pros & Conversations
Second Chances: Employment After Incarceration
In this episode of Pros and Conversations, hosts Peter Reynolds and Damon Adachi explore how businesses can be powerful allies in helping women rebuild their lives after incarceration.
They’re joined by Kelly Potvin, Executive Director of the Elizabeth Fry Society of Toronto, and Tina Eldridge, Executive Director of Rittenhouse, who share candid insights into the trauma women face in the criminal justice system, the barriers to reintegration, and the critical role of employment in creating lasting change.
Part of our Community Impact Series, this episode looks at how businesses can make a real difference in their communities—by breaking down barriers, creating inclusive spaces, and stepping up to support local needs. It’s not just about doing good; it’s also good for business. When companies give back and care about the communities around them, everyone wins.
Want to learn more or get involved? Visit efrytoronto.org to support the Elizabeth Fry Society of Toronto, or learn about transitional housing and support services at rittenhouseanv.com
Pros & Conversations is produced by For the Record Productions www.ftrp.ca
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Episode 26: Second Chances: Employment After Incarceration
Peter Reynolds: 00:04.372 - 01:03.880
Hi, I'm Peter Reynolds and welcome to Pros and Conversations, the podcast that explores what it takes to be successful, whether you're from the world of business, science, or the arts. Today, we're diving into an issue that impacts individuals, families, and entire communities, reintegration after incarceration. Too often, people who have been involved in the criminal justice system are met with closed doors when they try to rebuild their lives. In this episode, we'll be talking about how businesses can play a powerful role in helping individuals reintegrate into society. This conversation is part of our Community Impact series, where we explore how entrepreneurs and businesses can support their local communities. Because giving back isn't just the right thing to do, it also makes good business sense. And someone who brings both sense and sensibility we need for this episode is my co-host, marketing consultant, Damon Adachi. Damon, good to see you again.
Damon Adachi: 01:05.081 - 01:15.992
Great to be here. This has been an interesting journey on this Community Impact Series. You know, it's not necessarily right in my wheelhouse, but it's very engaging and it's always interesting to hear how we can be more involved.
Peter Reynolds: 01:16.837 - 01:32.385
Well, last time we talked about how business could, businesses could use food drives to give back, but I can imagine hiring someone with a criminal record can feel different for many, rightly or wrongly. There may be that sense of perceived risk.
Damon Adachi: 01:33.845 - 01:39.968
Yeah, sure. There's obviously some stigma involved, which we are looking to address, investigate, and hopefully overcome.
Peter Reynolds: 01:40.628 - 01:45.711
Absolutely. Cause everyone deserves a chance to rebuild their life and have a second chance.
Damon Adachi: 01:47.803 - 01:51.006
I'm sure I will need it soon.
Peter Reynolds: 01:51.026 - 01:53.068
Or third. Maybe third.
Damon Adachi: 01:53.128 - 01:53.969
Third would be good too.
Peter Reynolds: 01:54.990 - 02:26.970
Well, luckily we have two experts with us today to help dispel some of the myths and misconceptions around this topic. Kelly Potvin is executive director of the Elizabeth Fry Society, an organization dedicated to supporting women and gender diverse people affected by the justice system. And Tiina Eldridge is executive director of Rittenhouse and someone with firsthand experience on the challenges women face trying to reintegrate after incarceration. Kelly, Tiina, welcome to Pros and Conversations.
Kelly Potvin: 02:28.490 - 02:29.230
Thank you for having us.
Tiina Eldridge: 02:29.890 - 02:30.370
Thank you.
Peter Reynolds: 02:31.691 - 02:39.673
Kelly, maybe I could start with you. For those who are not familiar, can you tell us about the Elizabeth Fry Society, what you do and who you serve?
Kelly Potvin: 02:40.566 - 04:20.725
Sure. We're an organization located in Toronto, and we support women in conflict with the law and women who are at risk of being in conflict with the law. When I say women, I'm inclusive of all women, including gender diverse people. We've been doing this work in the City of Toronto for almost 75 years. We're coming up to our 75th anniversary. We support women who are on release through a federal halfway house. So that particular program is contracted with Correction Services Canada. So women who are doing a federal sentence can access parole by coming to a halfway house. And if their home community is Toronto, they would possibly come to our halfway house. And around that service we've built counseling programs, employment programs, housing programs, all of the things that women need, all the kind of services that someone might need to wrap around them to successfully reintegrate after they're coming out of an institution. Now we also support women who are at risk of being in conflict with the law. And that is a huge group of women in the city of Toronto. It's women who have mental health addictions, women who are racialized, women who have histories of trauma. All of those factors, sorry also women who are homeless, all of those factors increase your likelihood of coming into conflict with the law.
Peter Reynolds: 04:22.503 - 04:35.901
That's terrific. And I definitely want to talk more about the programs offered by the Elizabeth Fry Society. Um, but quickly, uh, just move over to Tiina. Um, I wanted to talk a little bit about Rittenhouse and the work that you do there.
Tiina Eldridge: 04:37.503 - 04:55.701
For sure. Well, thanks for having us. Written House is a very small grassroots organization that started in 1998, and our work is kind of twofold. We do public education around abolition and transformative justice, and then direct prisoner support for people in prisons and their families.
Peter Reynolds: 04:58.365 - 05:12.033
I'd like maybe to ask both of you, you know, talking a little bit about the barriers that face, you know, women who've been involved with the criminal justice system, trying to reintegrate in society. Kelly, perhaps we could start with you.
Kelly Potvin: 05:14.989 - 08:38.586
The first thing that I want to say is that for someone who has been incarcerated, being incarcerated in this country is a very traumatic experience. I think that the general public believes that we have a fair and equitable system and that people go to prison, that they are somehow people who've done a crime and they need to do the time. I think, generally speaking, Canadians believe that our prisons provide supports and services for people to get better, to rehabilitate, and that's factually untrue. There are many ways in which our prison system does not reach the level of the Geneva Convention for treatment of prisoners. There are many cases before the courts where our prison system has failed people. And the Elizabeth Fry Societies and places like Rittenhouse were trying to hold correction services accountable to being an institution that actually provides supports. So the system is broken. Being incarcerated is a traumatic experience. Women who are incarcerated are at great risk of being sexually assaulted by guards. There are very few programs that operate inside. They are operated by members of Corrections Services Canada. So it's not necessarily a safe place to disclose your feelings. There is not access to treatment or therapy or anything. So if something that led you to commit whatever offense that you were incarcerated for had to do with some sort of trauma, and for women, the correlation between unresolved trauma and criminal activity is super high. It's very high. It's almost at 90%. So if that's what sent you to prison, you're going to go to a Canadian federal institution where you will be re-traumatized because it's not a walk in the park, and you will not get any help for any of the issues that sent you to be incarcerated. So If I focus on only how do I help, how does, say, eFRAI provide supports and services to help people successfully reintegrate, I'm only looking at half the picture because really what we want to do is prevent people from going to prison and abolish prisons in my dream. And if I can't abolish prisons, then change them. into a service that actually helps people. The current prison system that we have is sadly disappointing and I think more people need to know how horrible our prison system is in Canada. And I think it would change people's opinions of people who've been incarcerated.
Damon Adachi: 08:39.949 - 08:53.102
So beyond what you're able to do in support of inmates and people that are looking to reintegrate, what sort of advocacy work are you able to do to proactively try and change these systemic problems?
Kelly Potvin: 08:55.259 - 10:54.681
Well, that's a good question. I do work with our national organization, the Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies. And they go into women's prisons and they do advocacy visits. So they meet with women while they're being incarcerated, they listen to their complaints, they look for ways in which the system is failing them or breaking the law or violating people's rights, which happens more times than that I could count. So we sign on with them. I myself have done a prison advocacy visit. So I have that experience. Even just walking into a federal institution, it does change you. Because before I worked in this field, I too had a certain image of our correctional system that somehow people got the help that they need in prison and they don't. And so, you know, the work to be done in a halfway house is kind of overwhelming because people are coming out with very high needs. I think we're a little bit underfunded for the needs of the people that we're seeing, but we do the best that we can. It's just the system is really broken already. So I don't know what's going to take to make it better. Certainly, you know, I have a lot of ideas about how we can collapse this capitalist system and rebuild something better, but I don't think most people are going to sign on to that.
Peter Reynolds: 10:56.261 - 10:57.942
At least not during this podcast.
Kelly Potvin: 10:58.222 - 12:14.186
Not during this podcast. But I do want to, and every opportunity that I have, I'd like to tell people that our prison system is broken. And there aren't people having an easy ride, getting PhDs on taxpayer dollars. That's not happening. People are being harmed, especially women are being harmed while they're incarcerated. And that's just a fact. And, you know, we've done a lot of, we've participated in a lot of research, and we published a paper that highlighted the intersection between race, trauma, and incarceration. And across the country, those are the people that we have, those are the women that we have locked up, women who have histories of trauma, a high degree of women who are racialized. And, you know, add mental health or addictions on there and you've got a group of women who have been disenfranchised, harmed before they went to prison and in an institution that's not going to help them.
Damon Adachi: 12:16.431 - 12:31.948
So we've talked about trauma extensively there, but I just want to sort of dive in a bit deeper and maybe we can get Tiina to answer how does that type of trauma shape the reentry experience for women and sort of what supports do you have available to help them with that challenge?
Tiina Eldridge: 12:33.295 - 13:52.724
Thank you. Good question. I can't agree more with everything Kelly has said. There really is a lack of supports when you come out. I myself was a person who was incarcerated for about six and a half years, came out to the e-Fry halfway house, and any of the supports that were in place, mental health supports at the time, were while I was on parole and they were governed by Corrections Service of Canada, meaning that anything that I was trying to access support for a report was written and could be used against me and possibly jeopardize my freedom. So there was an ability to be authentic and ask for help for things that I really needed help with. And there's such a huge gaping hole in the system where therapy is inaccessible for so many reasons. For free therapy, there's like very, very long wait lists. And the cost is a barrier for anyone else trying to access therapy. The lack of mental health supports inside, the trauma of being inside, coming out, being so overwhelmed with all of the parole conditions you have to abide by, like a curfew and call-ins and always stating your location and random urinalysis and mandatory programming that you have to do, make it really, really, really difficult to try and focus on employment, to try and focus on rebuilding your life. So it's very difficult to balance all of that.
Peter Reynolds: 13:54.966 - 14:22.042
I'd love to explore more about sort of the services that you, uh, that both organizations provide once, uh, someone has come out of the criminal justice system is in a halfway house and, you know, we're trying to help them rebuild their lives. Can we talk a little bit about that and maybe some of the skills that they're gaming to, to, you know, really be ready for employment? Kelly, perhaps you want to start.
Kelly Potvin: 14:22.062 - 17:02.061
Sure. We have a lot of counseling programs that are outside of our halfway house or community residential facility, and women who access those counseling programs they can speak freely to their counsellor and whatever is said is not reported back to Corrections Canada. So it doesn't impede their ability to gain their freedom once their parole is over. So that's a big key, a separation of who gets to talk to your therapist or know everything that you've said to your therapist. We have we've had different types of employment programs, employment readiness programs. We've had entrepreneurship programs. We have an entrepreneurship program that's going on right now because a lot of women who who've come out of the system just have given up on conventional employment. And this program teaches people everything from budgeting to making a business plan to what would you need to start your own micro business. Fantastic. And we also have right now a record suspension program, and that program helps people with their pardons. So you have to be five years past your charges, and once you're five years past your charges with no other charges, you are eligible for a pardon or your record is suspended. That's why it's called record suspension. And we're funded to pay for all the costs and paperwork and help people fill out the paperwork so that they can have their record expunged because having a criminal record is such a barrier to everything that you need to work out to successfully come back into a community. So you need a job. You need housing. Those are the two, you know, first steps. And if you have a criminal record that's going to prevent you from getting housing or a job, then, you know, what are your options? There aren't many. And we also have a housing program to try to eliminate that barrier of attaining safe affordable housing, which is hard with a record.
Peter Reynolds: 17:02.964 - 17:15.548
Kelly, when you talk about having your record expunged, does that mean like it never happened? So when you're asked, you know, have you ever been arrested, you can mark no because it's never happened?
Kelly Potvin: 17:17.289 - 17:48.275
Well, the question that people can ask is if you have a criminal record, they can ask that. And once you've had your record suspended, you can tick no. It doesn't mean – if somebody point-blank asks you if you've ever been arrested, that's a violation because you could have been arrested and not convicted of your charges, right? So there are many people who have been arrested and they don't have a criminal record and that's they can honestly say that they don't have a criminal record.
Peter Reynolds: 17:48.295 - 17:57.426
And is it constitutional for employers to ask and to be denied employment based on having a criminal record?
Kelly Potvin: 17:58.859 - 18:32.278
Well, so you can just be not a good fit, right? I mean, that's been, you know, that's what people say. That's what racist people say when they don't want to hire someone of color. If you look too old for what the position is or the company, or if you look too young, those are all protected status, right? But people just like How many times have we heard you're just not a good fit or you're not the right fit.
Peter Reynolds: 18:33.178 - 18:39.860
Um, I've heard it plenty of times, Kelly. That's why, that's why I produce podcasts.
Damon Adachi: 18:43.740 - 19:23.705
So, uh, you know, understanding that there, you know, when you say our preconception of what the justice system is like, that's one stigma that is wrong in terms of the fact that it is much less supportive and much less positive experience, I guess, in terms of how it can work to reshape you. But on the other end, when people are re-entering into the workplace, the signal we have is this is a potential re-offender. This is somebody that you will not be able to trust who has potential trauma issues. What are the more real versions of what a good candidate for workplace re-entry and for community re-entry really does look like?
Tiina Eldridge: 19:25.464 - 21:11.899
That's an interesting question. Yeah. I don't actually know the answer to that because what does a good candidate look like is the same as any person is regardless of whether they have a criminal record or not. Someone who's there and has the skills and the education to do the job properly. And I think that's something that's lacking too. There's this idea that there's all this great training for us while we're in prison and we have access to education and we get skills and we come out and we're able to join the workforce. And that's not the case at all. We have to get a GED while we're inside if we don't already have our high school diploma. And that's it. There's very little training opportunities. So folks, myself included, are coming out without any access to education, without any access to skills training, and expected to do differently and behave differently. And we have such a lack of options. In my own journey, I came out, I think I violated parole three times in the first two releases. I had nothing. I had no access to anything. Mental health supports insider skills training to give me the ability to do anything differently. And I failed both times miserably. My third time around, I started to access education. I worked with a program called Walls to Bridges, which teaches university and college courses inside jails and prisons. And that kind of gave me the confidence to pursue my education and then totally changes the trajectory of my life. And I came out and I became a social worker. So unless we are giving people things to make changes, people can't change. It's even worse now. We're in a housing crisis, lack of mental health supports. It's more difficult than ever for folks to come back out into society.
Kelly Potvin: 21:14.705 - 24:01.934
You know, if I'm to answer your question more directly, but I actually think that Tiina gave a great answer. I think one of the things that for someone who is trying their best, given the circumstances of the broken system, to rebuild their lives Oftentimes giving someone a chance makes a difference. So if you can look beyond the criminal record to the candidate to see what skills and abilities they're bringing to the job, If you're looking at somebody as a potential hire who has a criminal record, you have before you a survivor, someone who's got excellent survival skills. And how do you use those skills for the greater good in your company or with your organization? When you give someone an opportunity, it really boosts people's self-esteem. I've met women, and I'm sure Tiina has too, where they've been looking for jobs. It's one of their parole goals because you have to come up with goals. It was one of their goals, and they've applied for all kinds of work, some work they didn't even want, but they applied for it anyway. And been told no, been told no, been told no, and employers that, you know, wouldn't look at them as soon as they ticked that they had a criminal record. And you know that they finally got an opportunity with a company. They were, A, thrilled. It boosted them and their self-esteem. And they worked their asses off for these companies. They were like, you know, I've seen women soar. There's one woman that I can think of who, you know, took a course in project management and got on with a construction company and is doing amazing work. Her career is really taking off. But to get there, to have someone just not say no based on your criminal record, that's the key. And you will get people who are so damn thankful for having work because it is a cornerstone to being independent and having a healthy life and being a contributing member to society. And I don't know anybody who doesn't want that. I don't.
Damon Adachi: 24:03.578 - 25:08.018
Well, that's, that's very interesting to me because I think that, you know, from my perspective, when I'm looking to hire somebody, I'm looking for attitude more than aptitude. I'm looking for somebody who I know is appreciative of opportunity, who's looking to say, what can I do with this opportunity? How do I show that, you know, I want this as much as you want somebody who's going to do a great job. And that's frankly a bit lacking right now in the talent pool that's out there. Everybody seems to be more about. I'm looking for this job for my status, my, you know, stepping stone to the next thing. Here's what I think I'm entitled to versus somebody who says I'm looking for somewhere where I belong, where I'm accepted, where I can contribute, where I can be part of a team. So I was sort of fishing for that answer as well, as well as Tiina's great answer, but something along the lines of somebody who's going to say, you don't know how much I appreciate this. And that's as an employer, the type of person you want on board. They can learn skills, they can learn processes, but just the fact that they want to be there and are appreciative of opportunity is the type of person an employer will thrive with.
Kelly Potvin: 25:09.259 - 25:17.652
Exactly. I mean, the workforce is changing, right? the workforce is drastically changing.
Peter Reynolds: 25:19.369 - 26:02.679
I want to talk sort of maybe directly to business owners, you know, that are, that are watching this and, and this idea that, you know, more than just the right thing to do, that it makes good business sense, you know, and, and we've touched on, you know, this idea of, you know, it's going to, you know, you're going to build loyalty, you know, there isn't going to be as much turnover, um, you know, because the people that are there really want to be there. But maybe we can talk to businesses directly about, you know, again, some of those misconceptions, some of that perceived risk that they might have, you know, in hiring somebody, you know, who has a criminal record. Can we talk directly to that, Tiina or Kelly, whichever you prefer?
Tiina Eldridge: 26:04.600 - 26:05.360
I'll let Kelly go.
Kelly Potvin: 26:06.540 - 28:55.002
Okay. Feel free to jump in and add anything, Tiina, if you think I've left something out. I think that For business owners, I think the thing to remember is that People who've been incarcerated, I think sometimes we have this idea that they can't be trusted. They can't be trusted around money. A lot of people have been incarcerated and their offenses have nothing to do with theft or money. Nothing. So maybe if it did, it was because they had an addiction that they might not have anymore. Chances are they don't if they're on full parole. Employees without criminal records can steal from you. So that's one thing. The other piece that people focus on is public safety when they are talking about hiring people with a criminal record that they feel somehow unsafe and I think that that is also about stigma. I think that particularly for women, you're not unsafe. In fact, a lot of women are unsafe in the workplace and women with criminal records are even more unsafe because if someone is going to sexually harass them in the workplace, chances are they're not going to say anything. They're going to find another job and leave quietly. So The thing that I'm going to say to employers is that there is this overlooked pool of resources of people who have been formerly incarcerated who are trying to rebuild their lives and they just need a job to help them do it. And you're probably going to get one of the best employees you've ever had by taking a chance on someone with a criminal record because They can't work in the community if Correction Services Canada hasn't said that it's safe for the public for them to be there. And that's a really high bar. And I don't know really that many people who are looking for work with a criminal record are people who are innately dishonest or going to steal from you. I think that Generally speaking, especially women who are reintegrating into a community are just trying to rebuild their lives. They're trying to get their families back together. They're trying to reconcile with community. And those are the types of employees that I personally want.
Peter Reynolds: 28:58.047 - 29:24.232
Absolutely. And I think it's also benefiting the community as a whole. You know, this idea of, you know, these individuals, they, they live in your community right now, but the idea of being able to give them a stable income, the is going to, you know, obviously it's going to, you know, create stability in their lives. You're going to see less recidivism and, you know, um, it can only benefit the community as a whole.
Damon Adachi: 29:25.839 - 31:05.446
So as a business owner, what I would say to that is that, you know, the ones that are successful business owners that are successful, their investment isn't just in their profit. It's in building community. It's been collaborating with other businesses. It's in when serving their community in a way that is, is beneficial and adds value. And I think that considering this resource of talent and in terms of hiring is another way that you can show. your involvement in the community, you can tell your community that this is something that you're undertaking and that you feel good about it and to break the stigma. You feel great as an employer about helping somebody who is in a special situation of need. And this is all in line with your values as a business, not even just to share it with the community, but just in terms of your own personal mantra and goals as a business owner is to improve the world in some way. So that's what I would tell business owners from my perspective is to say, this is part of your create. This is part of your mission statement is to improve overall communities. And this is one great way to do it. I wish there were more ways that businesses could get behind the advocacy and changing the system and create more awareness for how. broken the system is and how it is just a giant rug that people are getting swept under and having a hard time finding their way back out from under. So, um, look, would look for those resources. And I can understand that's a very hard campaign to drive when, you know, the establishment is not really ready for you to shine a light on all their dark crevices, but, um, certainly interested in how we could be supportive from a small business standpoint as well, beyond just hiring.
Kelly Potvin: 31:06.141 - 31:11.386
Hey, could I give out a shout out to two companies that give our women a chance here in Toronto?
Peter Reynolds : 31:12.026 - 31:11.386
100%.
Kelly Potvin: 31:12.086 - 31:44.872
So Peek Freans hires our women. It's factory work at the Peek Freans cookie factory, but it's still work and we appreciate that. And also Lush Canada. Those are two companies that hire our women regularly. And I think we've had a partnership with both of them for, I think, almost 20 years. I mean, it is factory work. It's still work. And we really appreciate it.
Peter Reynolds: 31:45.899 - 31:49.120
That's fantastic. That's fantastic. It talks about the company.
Damon Adachi: 31:49.620 - 32:02.664
Go ahead, David. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but when you talk about those great partnerships, do you have alignment with any employment agencies or are you facing the same stigma there where they're saying, this is not the product that we're looking for?
Kelly Potvin: 32:04.025 - 34:17.695
We don't work with any employment agencies. They've not been willing to work with us. It's that they want too much intrusive information about somebody in their criminal record and I feel that that's not appropriate. You know we pride ourselves on sending appropriate referrals to employment opportunities to our partners and we've chosen to work with the partners who are not intrusive about you know we're going to screen them depending on what are their charges and how long ago were their charges and you know And I think that that is dehumanizing to people. If we have a partnership with you and we say that this person is employment ready for this type of work that you have available, then Either you trust us and we work over time really well in that, and with those two employers we've had a really good success rate. I still have people who are working for those companies. Some of them are managers that started working on the line in the Peak Frames factory. So we do We do take pride in, you know, having good referrals and building partnerships with people. But if you are a company that's going to want to control exactly, if you're very risk-averse and you're not ready to hire people with criminal records, then that's okay and just say that. But don't, you know, be picking between, well, I don't know if I like this person, this was their offense or And I think that that's none of the employer's business. I think, you know, what if the worst thing, if you think about the worst thing that you ever did in your life, and maybe you didn't get arrested for it, but think about that. The worst thing that you ever, the worst day you had, and you had to disclose that to your employer. before they gave you the job. Think about that.
Damon Adachi: 34:17.715 - 34:24.656
It would be like asking somebody, what did you get fired from, from your last job for? Like, what was it you did for your last employer that made them fire you?
Kelly Potvin: 34:24.776 - 34:31.377
Yeah, exactly. So why should that be an expectation, right? That, I don't know.
Peter Reynolds: 34:31.817 - 34:41.539
What sets like Lush and Peak Freens, what, what sets them apart? What, why do you think they've made that decision, you know, to be inclusive in their hiring practices?
Kelly Potvin: 34:42.000 - 35:41.551
Well, I think. What I understand about both companies is that they have family members who have experience of incarceration. And so some were in leadership at some point. And they understand that everyone is capable of making a mistake. And should their life be destroyed from there on. So oftentimes it takes something hitting home before a company will make an altruistic decision to work with us. But it's not the only reason, I suppose. I think both of those companies are very community-minded, very community-invested, and they see people with criminal records as part of our community, as they are. And so, why not hire them?
Peter Reynolds: 35:45.213 - 35:46.714
Because everyone deserves a second chance.
Kelly Potvin: 35:46.994 - 36:13.662
Everyone deserves a second chance. And we should never be, like, just imagine a world where we are all judged for the worst thing we ever did. I don't want to think about that, Kelly. I know. It makes everyone so uncomfortable, right? Even if you didn't get arrested for it. It just, if you think about that, because we've all made mistakes. We like, no, none of us are beyond judgment. Right.
Peter Reynolds: 36:15.203 - 36:22.204
Absolutely. Um, it's just been a fantastic conversation as, as we're wrapping up, Tiina, any, any final thoughts?
Tiina Eldridge: 36:23.325 - 36:25.005
Um, no, I don't think so. Thank you.
Peter Reynolds: 36:26.701 - 36:29.782
Oh, that was nice, nice, short and sweet. I like that, Tiina. OK.
Kelly Potvin: 36:30.163 - 37:09.106
So Tiina's very humble. Tiina has not given you the force of Tiina because she has, you know, she did talk briefly about being formerly incarcerated. But, you know, the fact that she got an education despite the system that didn't really want her to get an education, didn't really want her to succeed. And I think that it's it's kind of fitting that she was once in our halfway house but she is now on our board of directors and she's using her voice to change things in the future for women who are coming out of the prison system.
Peter Reynolds: 37:11.368 - 37:20.714
Well, it's again, Tiina, it seems like, again, you're a perfect example of someone when given the opportunity, you know, can do great things.
Tiina Eldridge: 37:21.855 - 38:09.157
I guess I could add that it still actually is a barrier for employment to me, even though I have a bachelor, I have a college diploma, I have a master's, I have 10 years of work experience. I keep applying for positions at a local university that I'm like fully qualified for, counselor and case management positions. And in the application process, there's that one question that always pops up. Have you been convicted of a crime for which you have not received a pardon? And I don't have a pardon as yet. And it's a mandatory question. You can't complete your application without answering that question. And so every time I say yes, I have not gotten one interview. I've applied to over 20 positions that I'm more than qualified for. So it really follows us that no matter where we are, that criminal record is still there.
Peter Reynolds: 38:11.244 - 39:00.864
Small side story, years and years ago, when I was in my twenties, on applications, they would, they would not say, have you ever been incarcerated or convicted of a crime? The phrase was, are you bondable? And so many people that I knew didn't know what that meant. So Jess wrote, no, not realizing what they were saying and couldn't understand why they weren't getting jobs. And it's so interesting that they would, you know, I don't know why they use that phrase or where they weren't allowed to say something different. Yeah. That phrase, are you bondable is just another word for saying, do you have a criminal record? Um, but it's, uh, it's, it's amazing. Uh, Damon, any final thoughts from you?
Damon Adachi: 39:02.609 - 39:37.186
Uh, you know, I really enjoyed this conversation. It's enlightening. I, you know, I don't know whether it's a question of using this great information to keep people from, um, taking for granted the opportunity they have from, you know, uh, trying to avoid incarceration in the first place or humanizing more of what's happening in these institutions and the people that are able to come out and try and reenter in the workplace. It's all very important that everybody hears this information. So we're happy to support the awareness from a pros and conversations point of view. Uh, and we're really appreciative of you being here.
Kelly Potvin: 39:38.103 - 39:39.764
Thank you. Thank you. It's a pleasure.
Peter Reynolds: 39:40.784 - 39:56.432
Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us and sharing your insights. Um, you know, about how businesses can support individuals reintegrating in society and dispelling, you know, many of the myths and misconceptions out there. It's been a really eyeopening conversation. Thank you.
Tiina Eldridge: 39:57.933 - 39:58.493
Thank you.
Peter Reynolds: 39:59.854 - 40:03.636
And of course, thank you to my cohost, Damon, for helping us explore this important issue.
Damon Adachi: 40:04.917 - 40:05.477
Glad to be here.
Peter Reynolds: 40:06.934 - 40:32.982
And to all our listeners out there, thank you for being part of the conversation. Be sure to follow Pros and Conversations wherever you get your podcasts, or check out this video version on YouTube to see all our smiling faces. Subscribe, leave a review, but most importantly, share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. So for Damon, Kelly, and Tiina, I'm Peter Reynolds. You've been listening to Pros and Conversations, and we'll see you next time.
