Mindful Communication In the Workplace: Insights from Sonia Byrne

In this episode of Pros & Conversations, hosts Peter Reynolds and Damon Adachi explore the essential role of effective communication in the workplace.

Our guest, Sonia Byrne, an accredited human resource and leadership consultant, shares invaluable insights on how communication can make or break a business. Sonia discusses how mindful communication starts with self-awareness, the importance of adapting your style to different audiences, and how to use the HALT principle—Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired—to recognize when you or your team are not at your best.

This episode is packed with valuable insights for anyone looking to foster meaningful interactions and build a healthier work environment. Whether you're speaking to a client, a team member, or a stakeholder, Sonia’s expertise offers a fresh perspective on how tailoring your approach can minimize misunderstandings and enhance collaboration.

Transcript

Peter Reynolds: 00:04 - 00:54

Hi, I'm Peter Reynolds, and welcome to Pros and Conversations, the podcast that explores what it takes to be successful, whether you're from the world of business, science, or the arts. Today, we're diving into a topic that can make or break a business, communication. Whether you're working with teams, clients, or multiple stakeholders, clear communication isn't just helpful, it's essential. One major challenge, we all communicate differently. The way we speak, listen, and interpret information can vary widely. And when those differences go unrecognized, they can lead to confusion, conflict, or even missed opportunities. And someone who never misses an opportunity to communicate is my co-host, marketing consultant, Damon Adachi. Good to see you again, Damon.

Damon Adachi: 00:55 - 01:01

Hey Peter, I think you're implying I have a big mouth and unfortunately I really can't argue it, but, uh, that's one for you this time.

Peter Reynolds: 01:02 - 01:13

I think we both suffer from that. The, uh, and, uh, so I I'm, I'm with you. I think we can, I think at the end of this episode, I think we might be in a better position.

Damon Adachi: 01:14 - 01:29

Yeah. Communication is really interesting to me. It's, it's what I love about marketing is the messaging and really honing that in and making people understand you because those connections interpersonal are what we live for. So I really love that aspect of messaging and communication.

Peter Reynolds: 01:29 - 01:51

Yeah. I'm, I'm super excited because I think we can focus on one type of communication, but whether you're talking to your clients or your staff, the, uh, or, you know, a different type of stakeholder, The way you talk should be different in each situation, I think. I think there are some similarities, but I think there should be a slightly different approach.

Damon Adachi: 01:52 - 01:59

Yeah. And I think we're gonna learn today about some of the other elements that we're not even considering when we try and communicate with people. So I'll let you introduce our guest.

Peter Reynolds: 01:59 - 02:21

Absolutely. So our guest today is Sonia Byrne and she is an accredited human resource and leadership consultant who blends corporate expertise and mindful leadership practices. She works with organizations through strategy sessions, retreats, and public speaking to help people communicate more intentionally and effectively. Sonia, welcome to Pros and Conversations.

Sonia Byrne: 02:22 - 02:24

Thank you. It's wonderful to be with you folks.

Peter Reynolds: 02:25 - 02:38

It's fantastic for you to join us today. Before we dive right into strategies and styles, can you tell us what first drew you to the topic of communication and why it's become such an important part of your work?

Sonia Byrne: 02:39 - 03:10

Well, I think I found myself probably deep into it before I realized that it was a thing that I was specializing in. I was mostly called in, in the corporate world and then in my own organization to help teams when there's conflict. And that's usually resulting from a misunderstanding or differences of opinion, et cetera. And so I just thought I was doing problem solving, but the bottom line on it was always communication.

Damon Adachi: 03:10 - 03:17

And how do you see the landscape has changed in recent years versus when you were starting to get into this?

Sonia Byrne: 03:18 - 04:20

Well, I think that we now have as many as six generations in the workplace. I just taught a class on that to a group this morning of young people just going into the workplace and how to deal with their older bosses, you know. So we've got six generations. We've got a post-pandemic experience of a lot of hybrid and remote work. where you may never see more than the shoulders and up of a person, sometimes for months or even years or even in your entire time as an employee and team member. I know sometimes I work with clients for months and then I show up at a conference to be their speaker. And unanimously what I hear is, you look taller on Zoom. And I'm five feet tall, I must have like a big personality or something, but, you know, that's always surprising. And see how we make up ideas about who we think people are when we haven't met them and only see them from here up, right? It's a fraught with opportunities for miscommunication.

Peter Reynolds: 04:21 - 04:28

Was I correct at the beginning when I said that depending on the situation or the person you're talking to, how you communicate should change?

Sonia Byrne: 04:30 - 04:36

Absolutely. If you try to talk to your spouse, the way that you talk to your employees, you might learn really quickly, it matters.

Damon Adachi: 04:39 - 04:40

Now you tell me.

Peter Reynolds: 04:42 - 04:54

That explains so much. Okay. My goodness. Well, it's interesting. How about this idea of, of the way you talk to people on zoom is different than the way you talk to them in person?

Sonia Byrne: 04:56 - 06:52

Absolutely. Well, there is a communication equation, right? And it has three elements and it's body language, which is the biggest, and tone, and then words. Words are just small, kind of 7% of the total 100% of the equation, yet so much weight. is on the words. The biggest piece is body language. So look at what we've done in this virtual world. We've taken two-thirds, at least, of our body language away from the communication equation. And so this is why so much is up to interpretation. But if you have body language and then tone and then words, and you deliver a message that somehow internally you're incongruent or misaligned with, people can tell. And this is why what I'm seeing right now in the world is the AI conversation. and seeing people write in LinkedIn or in their business and using Chad GPT AI and other tools. And yet it coming off like that doesn't sound like them or this doesn't sound like a person wrote it. So you know when you're looking at marketing and that's you know, Damon's world, when you're looking at marketing and marketing to clients, perhaps that more wider, less specific voice can work. But when you're wanting your own voice or skill set or credibility, reputation, background, message, et cetera, to be heard, it really needs to be more genuine. And when we do it online, we've lost the biggest chunk of the communication equation. So then it puts a lot more weight on tone and on words. And I know as a facilitator and teacher, I teach at a couple of colleges in Canada, and I find I've really adapted to a lot more hand gestures and exaggerated facial movements to make up for the fact that I'm not standing in front of people. And it's just what we've had to do as facilitators.

Peter Reynolds: 06:53 - 07:46

Well, I can let you in on a little secret that not too many people know, but I suffer from resting grumpy face and it came on very quickly. I did not realize it was happening, but I suddenly noticed that when I was doing a podcast and I'm listening intently, you know, suddenly. I seem very grumpy i seem you know i don't know why i look like this so i have to consciously raise my eyebrows to say no i'm not grumpy i'm very interested in what you're saying and it's the grumpy cat podcast it's the grumpy cat podcast absolutely david it's really interesting that i so so when i'm talking to people i'm sort of conscious not just of the words i'm saying but to your point my whole body language what my face is doing Because my face is not necessarily matching my sunny disposition.

Sonia Byrne: 07:47 - 07:54

Well, that is great self-awareness and self-awareness is a very big part of communicating.

Damon Adachi: 07:55 - 08:03

So is that what you mean in the term of mindful communication is having more self-awareness and recognizing that there's more to communication than just the words?

Sonia Byrne: 08:04 - 09:49

Absolutely. When I reference mindful communication or taking a mindful approach, it always starts with you, because if you don't understand you, and like Peter said, the way you come across, then all kinds of things happen. When you understand yourself better, you can understand other people better. And it's like learning presentation skills, where when you're first learning to present or public speak, Your circle of awareness is like half a centimeter in front of your face, because all the dialogue and all the awareness is inward. But you do it enough and you have some success or you grow your comfort with it, and all of a sudden your awareness goes out and out. Your circle of awareness is to the point where you can one day look out and you're so comfortable with your own presentation style that you look out and you think, oh my gosh, there's people sitting right there in the front row. It hasn't ever been about them, you know, and you develop for, you know, for years and years, as I have in my work of doing public speaking and keynote speaking, where you could be in an auditorium of two or three or 5,000 people, and you can spot somebody like 2,000 people back, touch the shoulder of the person next to them, and you think, ah, they got it. You can spot that one person. It's like the, the jumbo cam type of thing, like it zeroes in when your circle of awareness is that big. But that takes skill and work and time and not everybody has a job or a business that requires them to be that aware. But any level of self-awareness that you can grow as a professional in your career will benefit you in your relationships with others.

Damon Adachi: 09:51 - 10:21

It makes a lot of sense. And I hear what you're saying about engaging now with the audience rather than just presenting at them. Uh, and I feel like up until this point, I've been told a lot of things about how to project a persona or an attitude or a personality to sort of commandeer a result that you're looking for. And I love this idea of being more self-aware and more open to how you're being received. so that you can really engage and have sort of a better mutual outcome from your communications.

Sonia Byrne: 10:22 - 10:47

You can think of it like an infinity symbol. You send information or energy out and the audience reacts to it or the room or the boardroom or your team reacts to your announcement. And then the energy comes back in and you take that in and you recalibrate or adjust or affirm that your message is on track and then it goes back out. And so it's a constant energetic movement like this if you think about it in a visual way.

Peter Reynolds: 10:49 - 11:14

So I'm wondering about sort of the factors we need to consider about somebody's communication style when we're receiving it. So again, that idea of how somebody might misinterpret, you know, what might look like grumpiness on my face, you know, or may look like disinterest when in fact it isn't. What are some of those factors that we can take into account to maybe not misinterpret what somebody is trying to communicate?

Sonia Byrne: 11:15 - 13:59

Well, there's natural personality disposition, like introversion or extroversion, that goes along with our lived experience, so who we are. And that leads into the impact of culture. I do a lot of work with newcomers and people in multicultural organizations and settings. And, you know, some cultures, people come from cultures where being direct, like, say, from Germany or the United States, is valued and important. And so if they deal with somebody, say from South America or the Middle East, which is a less direct culture naturally, then they may be looking for a signal of agreement or happiness. And they think that they're seeing sort of on a scale, like a two out of 10 agreement or happiness with, with something. And they're looking for like at least an eight to looking for a very demonstrative reaction. But if you talk to the person who is giving the reaction, they'll say, no, no, I'm actually very happy. In my mind, I'm a 9. And so you register a 2 for them and they register a 9 out of 10. Culture and personality, lived experience are very important. And then there's just the day-to-day stuff that's going on. And so I use the fun acronym HALT, H-A-L-T, which is popular in communication training. And it's the idea of if you're hungry, angry, lonely, or tired, no matter what your culture, background, age, generation, or personality preference and predisposition is, that you're not really at your best. And the way that the world pushes us and the way that we push ourselves in the world right now, there's oftentimes when you're hungry, angry, or feeling alone, or lonely, or tired, and you think about it with children who have less of a filter for all of this, And when they're hungry and you're two-thirds through a road trip, you're going to know that your kids are hungry. Or if somebody's angry and they're holding it back and then it's coming out in their tone. Or if you're feeling alone, like, all the team is doing this and I don't think they like my idea, then you come from that place too, and then tired. So I make the joke that if you're out with your team or you're traveling, It's a good idea to always say, you know, does anyone need anything to eat? Or don't even ask, just give it. And give opportunities for rest and give opportunities for connection and give opportunities for sharing. And so to take care of the H, the A, the L, and the T. I think the Snickers commercials these days really embody that where it's like, you're one thing because you're hungry. And when you meet a Snickers, you turn into something. And Damon, that's great marketing.

Damon Adachi: 14:00 - 14:02

Fantastic. It is a good campaign.

Peter Reynolds: 14:02 - 14:09

I think Damon, would you agree that I think I've been all four at once. I think I have. I think I have.

Damon Adachi: 14:09 - 14:18

I think about my household and the kids are hungry. I'm angry. The dog's lonely and my wife is tired of all of us. So I really think we're in a hotbed of great communication.

Peter Reynolds: 14:18 - 14:19

A hundred percent. A hundred percent.

Damon Adachi: 14:21 - 14:42

But the tired part is interesting to me because, you know, from a leadership point of view, it, I feel like it's easy to, to succumb to the feeling of I have to do it all or, you know, now I have to manage everybody else's personalities on top of running the company or making sure we're making the right fiscal decisions. That one seems like a really easy one to fall into. What are your tips for that?

Sonia Byrne: 14:43 - 16:48

Yeah, well, that is in the domain of leadership skills, right? That that really starts with self-awareness. And that's why you're the leader and you're not the other people is there's an expectation as a leader that you have the ability and the skill to self-regulate. to be able to look at a situation and although you're tired and maybe you're all four like Peter says, you still cannot show up that way. It's just not professional. And I worked with a number of organizations through the pandemic when things were sometimes at their deepest or worst. And leaders began being very open about their experience. And some people did it really well. And it came from a place of compassion and humanity and a connection. And some people fell apart in front of their teams. And you run a risk when you do something like that and sort of overshare or not really plan your message that you can lose the support or the respect of the team and I watched in some of my nonprofit organizations, for instance, the super compassionate groups, is that what ended up happening over time is what I call like Humpty Dumpty-ing. So they help the leader sort of get back together, put them back together, but then they went looking for another leader. And, you know, it's just a fact. It's just expected in leadership. I don't know if we want to call it like the dirty little secret. It's really not. It's a professional way of being. I don't think that we're asking people to be robotic or superhuman. And it's certainly fine to have a moment. But there's a reason that the leader is the leader. And so that's just an expectation. And I think in our very informal world, and especially post pandemic, we don't always remember that. And so there's a real surge of, of, uh, coaching going on and programs being offered around, um, that, uh, lonely at the top concept for leaders.

Peter Reynolds: 16:50 - 17:22

That's interesting. That's interesting. The, again, I think we're often taught to, you know, with our spouse or with our friends, you know, that the vulnerability is a strength, but at the top vulnerability even though it may be healthy is not necessarily seen as a strength by our employees. They're looking for strong leadership. They're looking to have that level of confidence. And when they, when they don't find it, they're going to look elsewhere.

Sonia Byrne: 17:24 - 17:45

And vulnerability looks different as a leader, you know, connecting with people like we're going through this situation and I feel you and I have the same concerns as you is one way of saying something as a leader. Another way is, is throwing your head in your hands and saying, I don't know how we're going to do this. I'm worried. I'm worried like you. There's a difference there and it's not a small difference.

Peter Reynolds: 17:46 - 17:53

It's absolutely true. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. If you're seen to be panicking, everyone else is going to panic around you.

Sonia Byrne: 17:53 - 17:58

It's the role modeling that's implied and you can't help it. That's part of being a leader. You can't get away from that.

Damon Adachi: 18:00 - 18:18

Very true. So I'm going to cheat a little bit. Cause I've, I've seen your keynote presentation, but when people are in those moments of those halt syndromes of hungry, angry, lonely, or tired, what are some of the words that they use that end up damaging the relationships they have and, and, and ineffectively communicate?

Sonia Byrne: 18:18 - 20:45

Yeah. So sometimes to sound certain, people will get into what I call superlatives. So they'll begin to use the always-never, which really is polarizing and locks people into one way or another. It might feel strong at the time, but later people will remember you said it and it'll come back to you. You said we would always or we would never. You don't want that. And then there are some words that are triggering to our brain, and there's four in particular. So the word why, as a question when we start with why, there's a thing that our brain does where we actually get defensive. And so when somebody asks us why, why is this happening? Why did you do this? Why does it look like this? We certainly feel like we have to defend and the body language even changes for people. They sort of stand up straighter. And they hope that what they say is going to appease you and that it will meet the need of whatever it is you're looking for. When you yourself, by asking why, are really coming from a place of not clarity and not specificity. And so maybe anger is behind that too. So it creates an environment of defensiveness. So I always encourage people to come up with a like a tell me more or explain what happened or walk me through it. And that's a much gentler way of finding out actually what happened or why we're in this space. Another one is a should. And so should, if you should and should and should, you know, there's that saying you're going to should all over yourself. But there's also the idea of should really is like a past experience of somebody else's viewpoint of what we should do or be. And it's sort of handed down maybe even generationally or by mentor or important person, a family, a culture. And so we get these unspoken beliefs around how we should be if we were a good person or a good spouse, etc. Another one is try. If somebody says in response to a request that they will try, Yeah. So if I say to Daniel, would you like to come to my barbecue on Sunday? And he says, I'll try to get there. I don't need to set a plate for him. I'm pretty sure about it. So you can go back with, you know, what will you do? What could we do? What might happen? So those are some specific words that sort of trip people up for sure. Yeah.

Damon Adachi: 20:47 - 21:03

Interesting that you said could instead of what should we do? And I, I understand immediately how that is laced with expectation, uh, and really boxes people in right. Versus be free thinking and come up with ideas and, and what can we do? What could we do instead of what should we do? That's so interesting.

Peter Reynolds: 21:04 - 21:04

Very collaborative.

Sonia Byrne: 21:06 - 21:18

And it's not that we shouldn't use these words necessarily, but we should know that the words have an impact again from self-awareness. And so use them when we mean to use them.

Peter Reynolds: 21:20 - 21:30

Can you maybe give us some, some real world examples of, of some of these, uh, um, you know, lessons that you've been talking about and some of the things we've been discussing?

Sonia Byrne: 21:31 - 26:05

Yes. Well, I have an example from a client in the Middle East. So I was working in the Middle East and I'd been called in because there was a very multicultural sea level team, 14 people from all over the world, so lots of different backgrounds and whatnot. And there had been a big launch, quite a splashy, expensive launch that had gone really badly, went downhill very fast. And so I was called in to figure out what had happened so it doesn't happen again by the leaders, by the people who were going to be in the room, the sea levels. I'm pretty sure they thought I was there to discipline them and slap their hands and tell them what they did wrong and what they should be doing instead. But you know, I entered this room in a really beautiful building with glass walls and it was just a gorgeous place to be. And the 14 C levels were there and we all got together. So CEO, CFO, CIO, et cetera. And what I did was I opened up a package of sticky notes. And I just started handing the sticky notes out. So it was little square sticky notes, you know, the post-its. And everyone took one and they sort of looked around and they were in very expensive suits. Even the casual clothes was very expensive, clearly. They had the best phones and car keys laid out in front, you know, this says who I am, this is how we know who I am. And so all of the markings were there, all the defenses were there, all of the trappings of, you know, I'm getting ready to defend how good I really am. And it probably wasn't my fault, whatever happened. And so I handed out these sticky notes and as they go around the table and they get to the last person, which is near me at the front, so it did a big U. I could see the faces and they were looking like, who is this Western person who's a specialist that we brought in and probably paid a lot of money to be here and she's handing out sticky notes, you know? And so what I had them all do is in approximately 10 words, I said 10 or not more, 10 words, one sentence on that sticky note, write to me, how was this supposed to go? Because it didn't go successfully and it didn't go the way that maybe we wanted it and it's failed. It's not good. So how is it supposed to go? And you could see they struggled. But I said, when you're done, just hand it in and then go out and top up your coffee. So everybody did it with a lot of trepidation. But you could see their shoulders were already starting to relax. And I picked up those sticky notes and I tucked my head outside and I said, just refresh your coffee and then come on in and sit down when you're ready. And let's do this in silence. So they did that. And what I did was a classic training gallery walk. So I posted the post-it notes up around the room as if they were artwork on these beautiful glass walls. And when they came in, I said, okay, everyone just take a walk around and read. No one's names were on them. And they walked around and read. And then I could see like, uh, there were, there was laughter and, and there was body language, which told me they were relaxing. And then when they sat down, I said, so what do you see? And there were so many different views and it was, oh, these people thought the same thing I thought. Oh, these people, I never even thought that that's what we were doing. And so what was really clear was that in the steps of awareness, intention, And then to going into action that we had just flown past awareness and intention and got really focused on the action and getting the thing done in the timeline, which leaders sometimes have to do. But this went really badly. It was really clear that what they thought was supposed to happen was so very different and so, so wide. And so we had, um, a place to start. So I said, okay, well, let's just get started then. And they did. And it was, you could see they relaxed and we had a wonderful and meaningful day together and really set some processes to create a likelihood that that could not happen again. But it's amazing because of culture, because of background, because of direct or indirect communication, because of concern about vulnerability, worries about asking questions, a lot didn't happen. And it was a very expansive experience. The product launch, not me being there.

Damon Adachi: 26:05 - 26:08

Hey, you know, it takes what it takes.

Peter Reynolds: 26:08 - 26:49

Absolutely. That's very interesting. I'm wondering, you know, as you, as you were telling the story, I was thinking. Is that almost a, um, a problem one could anticipate when you have everyone at the sea level, everyone who's sort of an alpha. in their, you know, used to making decisions, not used to asking questions, you know, the, uh, you know, asking opinion, they, they're all very aggressive to get to where they are, that that inherently is going to impact communication amongst them. You know, the, uh, so w was there something there? Is there something inherently, uh, problematic when, when managers and executives are talking to one another?

Sonia Byrne: 26:50 - 26:58

Well, I think the stakes are higher, but even in a group of six or 12 or 20 alphas, they organize themselves and re-alpha themselves.

Damon Adachi: 27:00 - 27:40

That's very interesting. Yeah. For me, the takeaway is that, you know, if you don't have the discussion, if you don't establish, if you don't communicate those intents and those, you know, values and plans, then it's sort of open to interpretation, which is why you get eight different versions of it out of 14 people kind of thing. But like the must, that must be a learning port where you say, okay, and this is why companies have vision statements and mission statements. And we have to communicate internally what our brand is, what our vision is, what our intent is, who we are as an organization to make sure that when, whatever we do action wise now, it's that, that goal, that vision.

Peter Reynolds: 27:41 - 28:29

I think assumption, I think assumption is, is, you know, such a, You know, it's one of those situations where I think when I, let's say when I produce a podcast for, for an organization, that if you asked five people in the organization, what's the podcast for, I think you get five different answers because that somehow it's just, oh, well, people make an assumption. The, uh, this is to help promote the brand. You know, this has helped to communicate with our membership or communicate with the public, but no one ever necessarily has that conversation. What are we actually doing this for? And whether that's a conference or a podcast or, you know, uh, a goal that the company has that they never seem to have that, that conversation. And I wonder, I wonder why that is.

Sonia Byrne: 28:31 - 29:21

It's often pace. It's often a deadline. And people are afraid, at their nerves, they're tired, they need to get something out. But taking that moment to pause and say, you know, what is this supposed to be for? Or in one sentence, could we describe the impact to our customers? Or could we describe the benefit to this thing? And this is why, as Damon mentioned, having strategic plans where you've got a mission and vision, but really specifically the values part are so important because you can, if you're making a big decision in an organization, stop and say, you know, how does this support our values and go back through. You have a benchmark and foundation to go back to. But without a strategic plan, a mission, a vision and values, every time you make a decision, it's kind of like a big blank slate and it's a lot of work.

Damon Adachi: 29:23 - 29:51

So I have a, an insight question for you. I'm curious to know who you think of today as excellent communicators in, in the public world. And I think the ones that we naturally gravitate to are from a previous generation. And there's something different in our society today about how people want to tear down heroes or something or cancel culture, whatever you want to call it. But there have to still be examples today of excellent communicators.

Sonia Byrne: 29:52 - 29:53

Yes.

Damon Adachi: 29:53 - 29:54

Help me find one.

Sonia Byrne: 29:54 - 31:18

Oh, you know, um, At the risk of being contentious here, the recent experience with Coldplay, the Coldplay concert, and Chris Martin, the leader, the band leader, in that night he made two mistakes or two issues happened. First, he forgot where he was and there was a couple having a special moment on the stage that he was singing with and two, and he was in Boston but said, You know, I just love being in Canada because it's so welcoming, and the people had to remind them that he was in Boston. You know, I've done the dog and pony show. I've woken up in towns and not really known for sure exactly where I was because of the heavy schedule for speaking and the traveling, and you have to double check that. But he just handled that with authenticity. And then when the situation happened on the Jumbotron, that seemed to expose an organization's arrangement in there between leaders, he called people involved afterwards. And even though it was nothing to do with him and he did not have anything to apologize for, it was just the normal course of the process of the show, the run of the show, he still felt so badly for what happened. And that's just a genuine person. And that was a rough night for that man.

Damon Adachi: 31:19 - 31:57

Yeah. Authenticity. It goes a long way. And it's funny, like when I'm teaching my own kids, I often tell them you can affect a group. You can walk in as a single person and change the dynamic and the temperature of an entire group. with how you communicate and how you portray yourself and, and how you project some of those things and engage with them. Right. And you can be honest and get through things that aren't working well, whether it's a disagreement with another child at school or on your sports team, you can be a leader. You can step up and change the dynamic with how you communicate to the group without doing anything else.

Sonia Byrne: 31:58 - 31:58

Absolutely.

Peter Reynolds: 31:59 - 32:16

A hundred percent. Sonia, as we're getting to the end of the podcast, I'm wondering what steps would you recommend for businesses, for those entrepreneurs watching who are perhaps struggling with effective communication and, and personality conflicts? What are some steps you would, you would recommend?

Sonia Byrne: 32:18 - 34:08

I would recommend that whether it's an entrepreneur or an organization that has a team, that they provide opportunities or access opportunities to grow their self-awareness. So that might be through mentorship or coaching or self-assessments like personality assessments, workplace assessments, are a great non-subjective tool. You create them, you create the answers so you can't argue and say somebody is just saying I'm a whatever. It's like, no, your answers tell us that you're likely perceived as a whatever. So that's good feedback for people to have. Also, organizations and teams and groups need to take opportunities to be outside the workplace. And that can be social or even business retreats, but just there's an opportunity to see each other differently. And it creates more of a humanity experience. So you're just, you get a chance to talk about stuff that's like, Hey, my kid's doing this. Oh, my kid did that when he was that age too, you know, that kind of thing. And then, um, for leaders to remember that they're always role, uh, role modeling, you're always, always, always role modeling. So. You can't take back something that you do. It takes a little bit to kind of move past it. I asked Chris Martin a couple weeks ago here how much he had to do to come back from that. But we're always, always being seen. So whether we dress casual or we swear or we don't or we talk about our family or we don't, the people around us are picking up those cues and using them to decide what's appropriate for them. So if we think that, no, no, I'm just one of the team, you can't be that and the leader, you know, all the, all the time. And it's not a bad thing. And it's part of the value that you bring as a, as a leader for communication.

Peter Reynolds: 34:08 - 34:14

It's like you have to, you can either your parent, the child or, or their best friend, which can't be both.

Sonia Byrne: 34:16 - 34:19

Exactly. You can be friendly, but not the friend maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Like that. Yeah.

Peter Reynolds: 34:22 - 34:32

Amazing. Sonia, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your insights on communication styles and the importance of mindful leadership in the workplace. You've given us a lot to think about.

Sonia Byrne: 34:32 - 34:34

Thank you. It's been fun.

Peter Reynolds: 34:35 - 34:42

And of course, a big thank you to my co-host, Damon, for adding your particular brand of communication to our conversation.

Damon Adachi: 34:43 - 34:46

I won't make any hand gestures, I promise. I'll be very clean.

Peter Reynolds: 34:48 - 35:14

And to all our listeners out there, thank you for being part of the conversation. Be sure to follow Pros and Conversations wherever you get your podcasts, or check out the video version on YouTube to see all our smiling faces. Subscribe, leave a review, and most importantly, share this episode with someone who could use a little communication clarity. So for Damon and Sonia, I'm Peter Reynolds. You've been listening to Pros and Conversations, and we'll see you next time.